Monday, August 20, 2012

EUROPE : TRADITIONALIST GROUP HOPES FOR UNION WITH ROME

CATHOLIC HERALD REPORT:
By David V Barrett on Friday, 17 August 2012
Bishop David Bell meets Pope Benedict
Bishop David Bell meets Pope Benedict
The English leader of a breakaway traditionalist group has said that he wishes to be reconciled with the Catholic Church.
Bishop David Bell, 41, is head of the Society of Pope Leo XIII, which upholds the pre-Vatican II teachings of the Church, particularly the older form of the Tridentine Mass. The society claims to have 73 bishops and 500 priests, and to be responsible for congregations totalling 8.5 million people.
In the eyes of the Church Bishop Bell’s ordination as a bishop is valid but illicit; he was ordained by bishops with the Apostolic Succession and has passed this on to other bishops he has ordained, but all of this is without the sanction of the Catholic Church.
A report in the Italian newspaper La Stampa last week said that Bishop Bell, who calls himself Archbishop of London, had prepared a “curse” against Bishop Mario Meini of the Diocese of Fiesole, Italy, but he said that this was incorrect.
“I issued a decree of anathema because he said I wasn’t a bishop. Only the Holy See can make such a declaration,” he said.
Bishop Bell met Pope Benedict XVI at a Wednesday audience in June 2011 and kissed his hand. “How did I meet the Holy Father? I asked,” he said, stressing that he applied to meet him as head of the Society of Pope Leo XIII.
He said that he accepts the infallibility of the Pope. “We don’t speak out against the Holy See,” he said, emphasising that doctrinally they are close to the Church. “As far as we are concerned there’s very little difference at all,” he said. The one important point is the Tridentine Mass, which Pope Benedict has brought to greater prominence in the Church.
Bishop Bell confirmed that the Society of Pope Leo XIII is “in talks” with the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. “The Holy See has held private talks with illicit bishops for hundreds of years,” he said.
He accepted that if they were to come back into full communion they would have to accept the authority of the Church. “We intend to bend, to work more closely with Rome,” he said. He said that talks had already been held with officials at the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.
He said that if and when he would accepted back he will be a titular bishop only, without any episcopal power within the Church, and accepts that “my hands will be tied unless or until the Holy See decides otherwise”.
“It is a long journey and will take a long time,” he said.
SHARED FROM CATHOLIC HERALD

7 comments:

Anonymous said...

Here is a recent warning from the RC Bishop of Brentwood about Mr David Bell:

DIOCESE OF BRENTWOOD






No: 27/12





Private & Confidential

To the Clergy


Bishop’s House

Stock

Ingatestone

Essex

CM4 9BU



Date: 21 September 2012




WARNINGS



At the request of H.E. Archbishop Luis Ladaria Ferrer, S.J., Secretary of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, I have been informed that Mr David Bell, President of the Society of Leo XIII, belongs to a schismatic community and he does not have any recognised status within the Roman Catholic Church. He should not be allowed to exercise any ministry within the Catholic Church and his ordination is not recognised by the Church neither is any organisation or association connected with Mr Bell.

With all good wishes,



Yours sincerely,






















Bishop of Brentwood

Anonymous said...

Is that all. Just shows how greatly Vatican II bishops are uneducated in theology, doctrine and their own history.

Anonymous said...

all it takes to be a valid but illicit catholic bishop is:

(1) The imposition of hands by the consecrating bishop (technically called the matter of the sacrament).

(2) The essential 16-word formula recited by the consecrating bishop (technically called the form of the sacrament). For validity, it is not even necessary that the bishop get all the words exactly right, as long as he does not change the meaning substantially. See E. Regatillo, Jus Sacramentarium (Santander: Sal Terrae 1949), 873

(3) A minimal intention on the consecrating bishop’s part “to do what the Church does” (called ministerial intention).

Though all the ceremonies prescribed in the rite should be observed, the three foregoing elements are all that is required for an episcopal consecration to be valid.

SUCH UNHOLY MEN OF GOD WHO ARE PERSECUTORS OF OTHER CATHOLIC / ORTHODOX FAITH'S SHOULD STAND BACK AND EXAMINE THEIR OWN ACTIONS. THEY SOON SCREAM WHEN THEY THEMSELVES ARE PERSECUTED YET THERE POPE SPEAKS OF RELIGIOUS FREEDOM IN THE PRESS WHAT A LOAD OF NONSENSE. DONT SPEAK IT MAKE HIS BISHOPS DO IT.


I do not remember seeing the bishop of brentwood at bishops bells consecration in Brazil. Perhaps he was their and wished to receive true valid catholic orders from Vatican one.

Anonymous said...

H.E. Archbishop Luis Ladaria Ferrer, S.J., Secretary of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, informs us all that David Bell, President of the Society of Leo XIII, belongs to a schismatic community, then by this statement alone confirms that to be a schismatic is to be valid but illicit. What are we being told by the hierachy of the Roman Catholic Vatican II church who wish to tell lies and brain wash us as sinners.

Schismatic is a person who creates or incites schism in an organization or who is a member of a splinter group like the Roman Catholic Church. So if David Bell is a schismatic from a schismatic group then this refers to him being a valid but illicit Catholic Bishop as so preached by forefathers
In defining this truth of faith, Pope Paschal II does not add the least qualification, not even an implicit reference to cases where such ordinations might not be valid:Therefore, instructed by the examples of our Fathers, who at diverse times have received Novatians, Donatists, and other heretics in their orders [i.e., acknowledging the validity of the orders which they had received in their heretical sects]: We receive in the episcopal office [i.e., as valid bishops] the bishops of the aforesaid kingdom, who were ordained in schism... October 22, 1106.21.

Anonymous said...

St. Thomas Aquinas, the Prince of Theologians, says the same thing (III, Q. 64, A. 8 ad 2): In the words uttered by (the minister), the intention of the Church is expressed; and this suffices for the validity of the sacrament, EXCEPT THE CONTRARY BE EXPRESSED EXTERIORLY on the part of the minister [emphasis given by author]. Therefore, in the conferral of the sacrament of holy orders (or of any other) as long as the ordaining bishop, be he Catholic or apostate, observes externally the rite prescribed for the sacrament, he MUST be presumed to have the right intention, and the sacrament MUST be accepted as valid. Let us recall one more time that there is not the least question of the possibility of receiving valid ordinations from a bishop who has abandoned the faith. In fact, such ordinations received from heretics or others are normally valid

Pope Leo XIII answers clearly and with solemn authority:Concerning the mind or intention, inasmuch as it is in itself something internal, the Church does not pass judgment; but in so far as it is externally manifested, she is bound to judge of it. Now, if in order to effect and confer a Sacrament a person has seriously and correctly used the due matter and form, he is for that very reason presumed to have intended to do what the Church does. It is on this principle that the doctrine is solidly founded which holds as a true Sacrament that which is conferred by the ministry of a heretic or of a non-baptized person, as long as it is conferred in the Catholic rite.

Anonymous said...

St. Thomas Aquinas, the Prince of Theologians, says the same thing (III, Q. 64, A. 8 ad 2): In the words uttered by (the minister), the intention of the Church is expressed; and this suffices for the validity of the sacrament, EXCEPT THE CONTRARY BE EXPRESSED EXTERIORLY on the part of the minister [emphasis given by author]. Therefore, in the conferral of the sacrament of holy orders (or of any other) as long as the ordaining bishop, be he Catholic or apostate, observes externally the rite prescribed for the sacrament, he MUST be presumed to have the right intention, and the sacrament MUST be accepted as valid. Let us recall one more time that there is not the least question of the possibility of receiving valid ordinations from a bishop who has abandoned the faith. In fact, such ordinations received from heretics or others are normally valid

Pope Alexander VII, Brief Alias, 27 February 1660. “Quantum spectat ad sacramentum et impressionem characteris fuisse validam.” Pope Clement XI and Pope Benedict XIV declared that consecrations performed without such a dispensation are valid De Synodo Diocesana 13.13.9-10. “…consecrationem hujusmodi validam, licet illicitam, esse censuerunt… ratam firmamque, sed illicitam Consecrationem pronuntiavit.” Benedict’s emphasis, quoting Clement’s decree of 26 November 1718

The Catholic faith that the valid administration of a sacrament does not depend on a priest or bishop’s probity. Cappello, 1:36. “In ministro non requiritur nec status gratiae, nec vitae probitas, imo nec ipsa fides, ad validam sacramentorum confectionem vel administrationem. Haec est veritas catholica de fide.”

Anonymous said...

A bishop who confers Holy Orders is never presumed to have the intention of not ordaining someone as long as the contrary is not proved. For no one should be presumed to be evil, he adds, unless he is proven as such -Tractatus de Sacra Ordinatione, 1:970. “Proinde numquam praesumitur ministrum talem intentionem non ordinandi habuisse in ordinatione peragenda, donec contrarium non probetur; tum quia nemo praesumitur malus, nisi probetur…” His emphasis.

6. Theologian Coronata, “is certainly present in someone who regularly performs sacramental actions.” The mere act of putting on vestments and going to the altar is considered sufficient evidence for virtual intention. Conte a Coronata, De Sacramentis: Tractatus Canonicus (Turin: Marietti 1943) 1:56. “Virtualis enim intentio, ut iam vidimus, est intentio ipsa actualis quae cum distractione operatur. Talis intentio certe habetur in eo qui de more ponit actiones sacramentales.

S. Woywood, Practical Commentary on the Code of Canon Law (New York: Wagner 1952), 1905. “A sacred order is presumed valid until its invalidity is established by proof to the effect that it was received with want of intention on the part of the petitioner. He must show that something essential was lacking when the sacrament was conferred.”

So can the Bishop of Brentwood show us all the evidence of the lacking........of Bishops Bell and his principal consecrator and the two assisting bishops of the Brazilian Catholic Church not forgetting that two of the bishops from Roman Catholic Bishops Duarte Costa consecrated outside the Roman catholic Church both enjoyed vatican II careers as valid catholic Bishops and was never ever reconsecrated. there consecrations was accepted as simply VALID.